“The mother of idiots is always pregnant”--Italian proverb
Tuesday, May 10, 2011
The Modern Sisyphus
I am a fair and champion steed, but my rider's a knave, and this grieveth me much; often have I almost taken the bit between my teeth, cast my evil rider, and run away.
SOCRATES: There are some mixtures which are of the body, and only in the body, and others which are of the soul, and only in the soul; while there are other mixtures of pleasures with pains, common both to soul and body, which in their composite state are called sometimes pleasures and sometimes pains.
PROTARCHUS: How is that?
SOCRATES: Whenever, in the restoration or in the derangement of nature, a man experiences two opposite feelings; for example, when he is cold and is growing warm, or again, when he is hot and is becoming cool, and he wants to have the one and be rid of the other;—the sweet has a bitter, as the common saying is, and both together fasten upon him and create irritation and in time drive him to distraction.
PROTARCHUS: That description is very true to nature.
SOCRATES: And in these sorts of mixtures the pleasures and pains are sometimes equal, and sometimes one or other of them predominates?
PROTARCHUS: True.
SOCRATES: Of cases in which the pain exceeds the pleasure, an example is afforded by itching, of which we were just now speaking, and by the tingling which we feel when the boiling and fiery element is within, and the rubbing and motion only relieves the surface, and does not reach the parts affected; then if you put them to the fire, and as a last resort apply cold to them, you may often produce the most intense pleasure or pain in the inner parts, which contrasts and mingles with the pain or pleasure, as the case may be, of the outer parts; and this is due to the forcible separation of what is united, or to the union of what is separated, and to the juxtaposition of pleasure and pain.
PROTARCHUS: Quite so.
SOCRATES: Sometimes the element of pleasure prevails in a man, and the slight undercurrent of pain makes him tingle, and causes a gentle irritation; or again, the excessive infusion of pleasure creates an excitement in him,—he even leaps for joy, he assumes all sorts of attitudes, he changes all manner of colours, he gasps for breath, and is quite amazed, and utters the most irrational exclamations.
PROTARCHUS: Yes, indeed.
SOCRATES: He will say of himself, and others will say of him, that he is dying with these delights; and the more dissipated and good-for-nothing he is, the more vehemently he pursues them in every way; of all pleasures he declares them to be the greatest; and he reckons him who lives in the most constant enjoyment of them to be the happiest of mankind.
PROTARCHUS: That, Socrates, is a very true description of the opinions of the majority about pleasures.
Sorry for all the deleted comments lately. I suspect I shouldn't attempt to comment on your blogs anymore due to my tendency to misunderstand your message. I miss the dialogue, but attempting to mind read is embarrassing for me.
The point of most of my posts isn't to get you to guess what I'm thinking, so much as to stimulate my own "further thought" on a subject... so I'll admit that it would be pretty hard to read a mind like mine that is likely "in transition". :)
I like it when you comment... as it lets me know what other people may be thinking about a post and what it means to them.
Yes, the concept of eternity is certainly lost upon moderns. Perhap's that explains their preocupation with ends and means and loss of spannungbogen... no patience for waiting for "proper seasons" and their planting everything in a Garden of Adonis.
There is no acies triplex to serve as example in modern society. All ages compete against one another. There is no ordering of the maniples into Hastati, Principes and Triarii. Napoleon's "Guard" has been broken up and integrated into the ranks of as would be done w/raw recruits. :(
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGood question.
ReplyDeletePlato, "Philebus"
SOCRATES: There are some mixtures which are of the body, and only in the body, and others which are of the soul, and only in the soul; while there are other mixtures of pleasures with pains, common both to soul and body, which in their composite state are called sometimes pleasures and sometimes pains.
PROTARCHUS: How is that?
SOCRATES: Whenever, in the restoration or in the derangement of nature, a man experiences two opposite feelings; for example, when he is cold and is growing warm, or again, when he is hot and is becoming cool, and he wants to have the one and be rid of the other;—the sweet has a bitter, as the common saying is, and both together fasten upon him and create irritation and in time drive him to distraction.
PROTARCHUS: That description is very true to nature.
SOCRATES: And in these sorts of mixtures the pleasures and pains are sometimes equal, and sometimes one or other of them predominates?
PROTARCHUS: True.
SOCRATES: Of cases in which the pain exceeds the pleasure, an example is afforded by itching, of which we were just now speaking, and by the tingling which we feel when the boiling and fiery element is within, and the rubbing and motion only relieves the surface, and does not reach the parts affected; then if you put them to the fire, and as a last resort apply cold to them, you may often produce the most intense pleasure or pain in the inner parts, which contrasts and mingles with the pain or pleasure, as the case may be, of the outer parts; and this is due to the forcible separation of what is united, or to the union of what is separated, and to the juxtaposition of pleasure and pain.
PROTARCHUS: Quite so.
SOCRATES: Sometimes the element of pleasure prevails in a man, and the slight undercurrent of pain makes him tingle, and causes a gentle irritation; or again, the excessive infusion of pleasure creates an excitement in him,—he even leaps for joy, he assumes all sorts of attitudes, he changes all manner of colours, he gasps for breath, and is quite amazed, and utters the most irrational exclamations.
PROTARCHUS: Yes, indeed.
SOCRATES: He will say of himself, and others will say of him, that he is dying with these delights; and the more dissipated and good-for-nothing he is, the more vehemently he pursues them in every way; of all pleasures he declares them to be the greatest; and he reckons him who lives in the most constant enjoyment of them to be the happiest of mankind.
PROTARCHUS: That, Socrates, is a very true description of the opinions of the majority about pleasures.
"Is it worth it, for Sisyphus," I believe was the original question.
ReplyDelete"If life consisted merely of relieving itches by scratching... I doubt it," would be my answer.
Sorry for all the deleted comments lately. I suspect I shouldn't attempt to comment on your blogs anymore due to my tendency to misunderstand your message.
ReplyDeleteI miss the dialogue, but attempting to mind read is embarrassing for me.
The point of most of my posts isn't to get you to guess what I'm thinking, so much as to stimulate my own "further thought" on a subject... so I'll admit that it would be pretty hard to read a mind like mine that is likely "in transition". :)
ReplyDeleteI like it when you comment... as it lets me know what other people may be thinking about a post and what it means to them.
"Is it worth it, for Sisyphus," I believe was the original question.
ReplyDeleteYes, it is... now you have it straight from the horse's mouth. ;)
...care for me to expand on it? :)
Sure. And then can I rebutt? :)
ReplyDeleteps - Welcome back. :)
ReplyDeleteSure. And then can I rebut?
ReplyDeleteSure. As long as I get the last word. ;)
P.S. Thanks. :)
...okay, you can have the last word. :(
ReplyDeletelol. :)
ReplyDeleteWhen shall the expounding commence?
ReplyDelete:-)
Because I agree, it is worth it.
as it lets me know what other people may be thinking about a post and what it means to them.
ReplyDelete--------
"and what it means to them"...inkblots?
sigh...
legs or face, which do you see? :P
ReplyDeleteI always enjoy viewing things from angles and perspectives that in my rush to reach a conclusion I might miss.
ReplyDeleteYou don't listen to a record to reach the end of a song, do ya? ;)
Does "novelty" make any difference to Sisyphus?
ReplyDeleteNovelty indicates no investment. Novelty wears off because there's no potential for growth or change.
ReplyDeleteSisyphus works because of the change he experiences in the working.
Actually, I find the Sisyphus analogy cynical.
You don't listen to a record to reach the end of a song, do ya? ;)
ReplyDelete-------
Yes, if my favorite part is at the very end. :-)
Is there a difference between Sisyphus' of old and a modern Sisyphus?
ReplyDeleteActually, I find the Sisyphus analogy cynical.
ReplyDeletewhy?
Is there a difference between Sisyphus' of old and a modern Sisyphus?
...memento mori, unlike Sisyphus of old.
...i mean he is condemned for eternity, so has only a limited application for us as a metaphor.
ReplyDeleteYes, the concept of eternity is certainly lost upon moderns. Perhap's that explains their preocupation with ends and means and loss of spannungbogen... no patience for waiting for "proper seasons" and their planting everything in a Garden of Adonis.
ReplyDeleteI can see the difference.
ReplyDeleteThere is no acies triplex to serve as example in modern society. All ages compete against one another. There is no ordering of the maniples into Hastati, Principes and Triarii. Napoleon's "Guard" has been broken up and integrated into the ranks of as would be done w/raw recruits. :(
ReplyDelete